#1 thing you should absolutely not do in TJ?

[ksr]

Or be like my buddie's first time in Tj ," Hey where all the white women at?"

 

[Dubgli]

don't pee in the wind and don't mess around with jim

 

[IamGAD]

Burt wrote:

Debate is good I like hearing other opinions, and look forward to hearing other voices on the matter like Amigomio. And I agree with Amigormio I think the law is vague in Mexico, and I certainly don't understand it, but then again I don't live in Mexico. I think the main difference between Burt and me is I tend to see more shades of gray, where I think he only sees black and white, of course he'll disagree with me, and say it's the other way around. I think I do a pretty good Burt as I presented his augment let like he would, except he says he is polite and firm. I see him more as impolite and firm...having a little chip on his shoulder towards the way Mexican police treat some people from the US, and wants to get into it a fight/debate with them.......IMHO.

 

[Mitch]

That's my experience everywhere I've been in Mexico.

Of course, it is possible the website I quoted is out of date. I doubt that. What seems likely to me is that it is a law that is never enforced. In fact I've even seen official tourism site--for Nogales?--that says a Rx isn't needed. (That's correct at a practical level. I think Tijuana is the only place cops use this "dead law" to shakedown tourist.)

 

[deweydee]

Burt.. you are wrong... Mexican law is vauge for a purpose, to let the judge do whatever they want with you.

Prostitution is NOT LEGAL in Mexico, nor in TJ... it is tolerated.

This part of the ordinance: "Note the Ayuantamiento de Tijuana website says activities related to prostitution, not prostitution. That’s because prostitution isn’t against the law, while public manifestation of prostitution is against the law."

Activities related to prostitution includes SOLICITING (please, think, you are in Mexico, not the US... in Mexico there is only one law for one thing, not 10 to describe one thing legally).

One of this days they are going to "prostitution is legal everywhere in TJ" on you guys...
So just be careful...

 

[Praxis]

Very good, but don't "sweat it." .

There are some topics that Fireballs and I disagree on:
--The safety of Articulo 123
--The need for a Rx
--What to do if you are stopped by a cop

He usually doesn't hesitate in pointing out we disagree and/or stating his opinion--nor I in "proving him wrong."

 

[fannpireee (:]

Viagra in Monterrey... You can buy Viagra at any drugstore without a prescrition.
I started carrying the prescription with me just in case.
Cops don't hassel you no way as close as they do in TJ, but the AFI does once in while search the clubs and they really pat you down (no bribes either, no robbery either).

What I meant in my post, is when you carry Viagra out of the blister and with not descriptiona at all of the blue pill you have in your pocket, they cops can blackmail you that they will hand you over to the AFI for carrying drugs.

Someone said, I dont remember if it was in this forum or another: "Why carry Viagra in a pocket??? Use it!!!"
He is right...

 

[Tifa]

Note the Ayuantamiento de Tijuana website says activities related to prostitution, not prostitution. That’s because prostitution isn’t against the law, while public manifestation of prostitution is against the law.

What is public manifestation of prostitution? Try the article Fireballs quoted:
# Sex with the strippers is illegal, even though it is not uncommon for it to be offered. Usually there will be no problems, but be aware that if the police raid the club, you may have to pay a fine.
Having sex in a club with a stripper is a prostitution in public. So it’s illegal.

# …you may also be arrested if you take a stripper from the club to your hotel room for sex. Taking a stripper out of a club to a hotel is a good example of public manifestation of prostitution. (In fact, it’s one I used when trying to illustrate the situation.)

The article advises:
If you insist on doing this, be safe and have her leave seperately and meet you at your hotel.
Yes, that is safe. Because it is being done in private and this isn’t a public manifestation of prostitution.

------------

To recap:
--Prostitution is governed by state and municipal law—not Mexican federal law.
--In Tijuana prostitution is legal everywhere.
--In Tijuana public manifestation of prostitution is only allowed in the Zona Norte
--If you’re going to monger in TJ and don’t understand the difference between prostitution and public manifestation of prostitution then I advise you to stay in the ZN

-------------

BTW Fireballs, when you quote an article it would be best to include the source so all can judge for themselves if the source is credible. The article you quoted contains misspelling (separately, sic.) which usually aren’t found in a well researched article. That together with its misinformation makes me doubt it comes from a source that has seriously investigate Mexican law--like I have--by speaking with Mexican attorneys and actually reading the law.

 

[Pompal 09.]

I certainly don't have the energy or authority to disagree with all the self-appointed Mexican legal experts here. What I will say is that _in my opinion_ a cop won't give you a night in the clink for carrying Viagra or soliciting a prostitute while in the zone of tolerance. My interpretation was that this thread was to give what we considered useful advice, not to get our wannabe abogados out on the war path. I apologize for stating an opinion without a paragraph of disclaimers or a list of legal footnotes. Now go get laid and quit splitting so many freakin' hairs.

 

[Akuwa]

My understanding of Mexican Rx laws comes (to a major degree) from what is posted on website of the Secretary of Health for the Republic of Mexico. Also from the warning printed on the package stating that a Rx is required to purchase Viagra.

(Some say the package is generic and thus contains the warning. However, if the package contains a SSA number, the name of a Mexican distribution company, etc. then the package is specific to Mexico and not generic. Most pharmacies will also say that a Rx isn’t required, but technically it is that record keeping isn’t required. [Do you really think pharmacies would say a Rx is required and risk losing business? Especially when the law is almost never enforced.])

Here is (in part) what is posted by the Secretary of Heath on his website.

NORMA Oficial Mexicana NOM-072-SSA1-1993, Etiquetado de medicamentos.
5.11.1 En la etiqueta de los medicamentos, se deberل ¥xpresar la clave de registro sanitario, tal como se indica en el oficio de registro, seguida del n? romano de la fracciَ® ±ue corresponda a los medicamentos, ambos con la misma tipografي، y tamaٌ¯ y de acuerdo a la siguiente clasificaciَ®؛
I. Medicamentos que sَ¯ pueden adquirirse con receta o permiso especial, expedido por la Secretarي، de Salud;
II. Medicamentos que requieren para su adquisici eceta m餩ca que deberل ²etenerse en la farmacia que la surta y ser registrada en los libros de control que al efecto se lleven;
III. Medicamentos que sَ¯ puedan adquirirse con receta m餩ca que se podrل ³urtir hasta tres veces;
IV. Medicamentos que para adquirirse requieren receta m餩ca, pero que pueden resurtirse tantas veces como lo indique el m餩co que lo prescriba;
V. Medicamentos sin receta, autorizados para su venta exclusivamente en farmacias, y
VI. Medicamentos que para adquirirse no requieren receta m餩ca y que puedan expenderse en otros establecimientos que no sean farmacias.

Medications fall into one of several categories:

Category I medications may only be taken with permission of the Secretary of Health. Usually they are experimental drugs.
Category II drugs require the pharmacy to keep records on who bought the medication. The pharmacy will keep your Rx and you will need a new Rx each time you visit the pharmacy.
Category III medications are limited to three refills. Records should be kept by the pharmacy and the Rx stamped each time it is filled.
Category IV medications require an Rx from a Mexican physician. However, the pharmacy is not required to keep records about who bought the medication.
Category V medications do not require an Rx. They can only be sold in a pharmacy.
Category VI medications do not require an Rx. Their sale in not restricted to a pharmacy (think of something like Aspirin sold in grocery stores).

Category III medications are controlled substances that are normally habit forming. (Think of something like vicodin or oxycontin.) Possession of Category III medications is a serious offense and may result in prison time.

Most prescription medications--including Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra--are Category IV medication. (Cialis's registration number, for example, is 181M2002 SSA IV.) The regulation above says these medications require a prescription from a Mexican physician and that it can be refilled as many times as the doctor indicates. Since record keeping by the pharmacy is not required for Category IV medications many people and pharmacies say an Rx is not required. While this is correct in practice, it is technically not correct legally.

In contrast to Category III medications, the penalty for having Category IV medications without a Rx is a minor fine. (I think that’s the 452.40 to 357.20 peso fine for “Activities related to drugs or prostitution” on the Muncipality of Tijuana website.

In many Latin American countries so many people lack money to visit physicians that pharmacists often provide medical care. Hence laws requiring a Rx are seldom enforced, especially since the real goal is to stop medications from being sold in swap meets and by those with no understanding of pharmacology. However, the law is on the books and an "enterprising cop" can use it to extort money. Unfortunately, the cops in Tijuana have “found” this law used it to shakedown tourists.

My best guess, however, is that if you refused to pay a bribe in the event the cops find you in possession of Viagra without a Rx they’d let you go. They wouldn’t make any money arresting you. Plus because the law is universally ignored I don’t know what a judge would do—he might let you go or at worst give you a small fine.

-----------

When I was a kid some "hippies" set up a commune in a small farming town. The local farmers didn’t like them and wanted the cops to "do something." One night when the "hippies" drove into town the local cops arrested them. Their crime was violating an old "horseless carriage" law that required somebody with a lantern to walk 100 feet ahead of a motorized vehicle warning all of it approach.

It’s the same thing with the Rx requirement for Category IV medication. It’s a law everybody ignores. Any pharmacy will sell you Viagra without a Rx.

However, the law is on the books. The cops have found this law and are using it to extort money from tourists they catch in possession of Viagra. (Which is why I advise guys to take Viagra before leaving the pharmacy or get a Rx if they are going to wander around the streets carrying Viagra.)

 

[The Lemur]

Amigomio wrote:

Amigomio, Burt for one would disagree with you. According to him Viagra is indeed illegal, it's a category IV drug and as such requires an RX prescription, and says so right on the box. But the pharmacy isn't required to keep paperwork on who buys the drugs, and because Mexican is a poor country where many people can't afford doctors, pharmacies will sell the drug to anybody, but they are technically breaking the law, this is according to Burt. ( Amigomio what do say in Monterey about Viagra and these types of drugs?)

According to just about all pharmacy's in Tijuana buying Viagra is legal. They say only category's I II and III require a prescription as these are things like controlled substance, but it's perfectly legal to buy ED medicine, and if the cops fuck with you they are doing so to get a bribe, but the law isn't with them. ( everyone agrees no matter what the law is the TJ cops will fuck with you if you have a viagra)


Burt stands alone regarding prostitution where he says it's virtually legal in Mexico, and it's not against the law. According to Burt, the only thing illegal is the manifestation
of prostitution, where you can't do certain things out in public like trying to solicit a prostitute in a public place, or fuck her in a club or public bus full of people, and that prostitution is controlled on a state level not a national level.

I agree with Burt on many points like how it's regulated on a state or city level, and there is no law in many places in Mexico as it doesn't seem to be criminalize, but when everything is all said and done, Prostitution for all intensive purposes is indeed illegal, because it's there is nothing on the books regarding criminalization of prostitution, you have it regulated on a health level, you can only do it in specific areas of town, specific places in town, and you have fines and related infractions you can be convicted of like Amigomio linked, "prostitution related crimes" something many gringos are fined for according to that link. ( that TJ site has been linked on prostitution boards many times, and it's still unclear exactly what they are talking about when they say prostitution related crimes and drugs?)

And Burt really stand alone when he says the TJ police can't search you and require a search warrrant TJ cops search guys right and left all day, and set up road blocks and search cars all the time. Nobody tells the TJ cops they can't search you.....I sincerely believe if you follow Burt's advice refusing to be searched you could be opening up yourself to a serious ass beating!

Here is something on the internet regarding prostitution in TJ as everybody says just about the same thing, that prostitution is illegal in Tijuana:

 

[BastBeast]

Again... here is the link to Tijuanas police department:

http://www.tijuana.gob.mx/turismo/TouristGuide/English/pag6.asp

The ordinances and fines you have to pay for violating them are there...

 

[Gbubb]

What to do when stopped by the cops?

First, you have to decide between:
--Politely, but firmly, “standing firm”
--Getting it over with quickly, even if that means paying a bribe

If you are going to “stand firm” you need to show no fear, show confidence, and verbally resist. Ask questions like:
--What is your name
--Why are you stopping me
--Do you have a search warrant
--Where is your supervisior

I’ve had very good luck “standing firm” because when the cops realize I know my rights, I’m very capable of reporting their illegal actions, and I’m not going to pay a bribe they send me on my way with some sort of warning. The downside is “standing firm” may take time (usually 15-20 minutes).

If you want to “get it over with quickly” then.
--Hold your money and wallet in your hand while being searched
--If necessary, pay a bribe

During a shakedown the cops will often say something you did is illegal—even if it isn’t.. Carrying condoms isn’t illegal, although solicitation (public manifestation of prostitution) outside a zone of tolerance is. I believe that carrying Viagra, etc. without a Rx is technically illegal, others don’t. In either case the cops in Tijuana will claim possession of Viagra without a Rx is illegal and try to get you to pay a bribe. (Note, however, that Viagra is not a controlled substance like oxycontin. At worst you’ll pay a very small fine.)

After being searched, you have the option of paying a bribe or “standing firm.” If you’ve really broken the law (you’ve got illegal drugs, a weapon, etc.) then you better pay a bribe. However, if what you are accused of doing isn’t serious (such as carrying Viagra without a Rx) then you can stand firm or pay a bribe to “get it over quickly.”

If you don’t want to pay a bribe then tell the cops you want to see a judge. (In Tijuana judges are on duty 24/7 and the cops must get an incarceration order to put you in jail—no matter what they say.) The cops don’t make any money by taking you to see a judge, in fact, they lose time they could be shaking down a more willing suspect. Normally when you insist on seeing a judge the cops will cut you lose.

 

[sol]

Sorry Darius, but this: "Soliciting a hooker, ...or carrying Viagra are not crimes."...

... yes, they are not crimes, but they can be used against you if the police wants to.

You are definitly right in saying not to "show fear, be firm, polite and don't offer them a bribe unless you have actually committed a crime".

Thing is that soliciting prostitution is prohibited in Mexico... tolerated, but prohibited. Although it is only a misdemeanor that gets punished with a 500 peso (average) fine. Police can turn this against you if you tempt them.
And Viagra if you carry it by itself, out of the box or blisters can be seen as if you are carrying a controled substance for which you need a prescription, so they'll turn into a "activites related to drugs" thing...

For more info, here is the Municipio de Tijuana link that shows it all:

http://www.tijuana.gob.mx/turismo/TouristGuide/English/pag6.asp

 

[NM-47]

I've been stopped and searched a half dozen times, it's no big deal, I certainly don't think it is scary. I take my money out of my wallet and hold it if they want to search it.

Don't show fear, be firm, polite and don't offer them a bribe unless you have actually committed a crime and doing so is better than the alternative. Soliciting a hooker, walking down the wrong street or carrying Viagra are not crimes.

Now regarding condoms, I didn't think this was a big deal until I got the clap from a bar girl. Now I think I will insist on it.

 

[b_witch]

TJ is probably the only city in the world I feel a sense of fear when I enter. The reason is I have had a few encounters with the police. They ask you, "what do you have in your pockets"? One time he said "don't you know it's against the law to solicit a prostutute"? {I wanted to say..... well, I'm talking to you..... so what are you a fucking prostitute or a bandido"? (sure as hell aren't a cop) Anyway, after having a couple of bad experiences, I have a new practice you fellow mongers may be well to adapt. Except for $15 of decoy money in my front pocket, I ALWAYS carry my real cash in my crotch. Someone once told me a TJ cop will not hesitate to pad you down everywhere.... but NOT your crotch. Apparently it's sort of the man's no man's zone as well it should be. I feel like it does give me a little control of the situation.

 

[KiwiKid [new avatar]]

I would agree with FB on the following, during day light there are lot less or no searches. They usually will not search you if you are "presentable", walk straight and tall (I may be wrong). But one thing for sure, from midnight to dawn there is more chance of being searched, because generally more criminals and bad elements (including Mongers are out in the unearthly hours

 

[Poojy :)]

1ho-nos wrote:

Well they can't stop them all, and about every 1 out of 3 trips I don't see any cops there at all, and I usually go at night.

It's also over-exaggerated over how many guys they stop. This is a big fear, especially on other boards, so guys talk about it all the time, or it just seems like they are pulling over all the gringos? But I haven't notice any big increase of actual police robbings?

And if they stop you big deal, if your not carry drugs or drunk, they usually just ask you a few questions, sometimes search you, but almost always let you go without taking anything.

But your right, you'll run into the cops a lot less during the day, especially at the taxi drop off.

 

[Braydon]

There's no problem going to TJ at night if you take a cab back to the border.

 

[RuNnErGiRl]

Or drugs.
..