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On this episode, RJ Encinas from CHRIS180 discusses the organizations’ missions to provide trauma-informed behavioral health and wraparound services to children, families, and adults in the Atlanta and Gwinnett County communities. Programs address underlying experiences impacting families, not just presenting issues. CHRIS180 provides counseling and support services regardless of insurance status, partnering with local organizations. Hosted by Rico Figliolini

Resources:
CHRIS180 Website: https://chris180.org/

Timestamp:
00:00:00 – Understanding Trauma and Community Care
00:01:20 – Transforming Lives in Gwinnett: The Story of CHRIS180
00:05:50 – Embracing Technology and Community Connections
00:08:44 – Providing Free, Nonprofit Services
00:10:15 – Expanding Awareness of Community Support Services
00:12:21 – Supporting Families in Juvenile Justice
00:14:27 – Adapting Services to Individual Needs
00:17:52 – Measuring Success Through Data and Community Engagement
00:19:47 – Embracing the New and Expanding Horizons
00:22:26 – Expanding Wraparound Services for Diverse Communities
00:25:20 – Leveraging Family Strengths in Home-Based Services
00:27:00 – Collaborative Family-Centered Approach
00:29:25 – Expanding CHRIS180’s Staff and Services

Podcast Transcript:

00:00:00: Rico Figliolini

Hi, everyone. This is Rico Figliolini, host of UrbanEbb, a podcast that talks about culture, politics, society, and we have a great guest today that will help us a bit more to understand about the traumas in our lives and how to take care of those people we care about. His name is RJ Encinas from CHRIS180. Hey, RJ. Thanks for joining me.

00:00:25: RJ Encinas

Hey, Rico. Thanks so much for having us.

00:00:28: Rico Figliolini

Yeah. No, this is great. It’s a beautiful day outside too, so it’s good to be in the house.

00:00:31: RJ Encinas

It is nice. Yep.

00:00:35: Rico Figliolini

So CHRIS180 just opened a new facility in Lawrenceville, Georgia, here in Gwinnett County. And there’s services that are going to be expanding into that facility and reaching out to Gwinnett County. And the services that are going to be expanding into that facility and reaching out to the Gwinnett community. So I guess the first question would be, give us an overview of CHRIS180 and its mission. And tell us, by the way, a little bit about yourself as well.

00:00:58: RJ Encinas

All right, cool. So yeah, so like you said, Rico, my name is RJ Encinas and I am the Vice President of Wraparound Services here at CHRIS180. I actually am brand new to Atlanta. I’ve only lived here since January, so I’m still trying to find my footing here in Atlanta, still, you know, testing out the delicious food and different locations. The positive is I happen to choose a home in Gwinnett. So, you know, living here and the new office opening here in Gwinnett just, you know, kind of worked out perfectly. So CHRIS180, it is an Atlanta-based nonprofit organization that opened in 1981. For the past 40 years, we have worked with over 200,000 families throughout the metro Atlanta area. What we do is we provide life-changing trauma-informed behavioral health services and wraparound services to children, families, and adults in communities that empowers them to change the direction of their lives. A lot of what we do also is meeting the families where they’re at. I think that’s so important to help support them in the most natural setting. So whether that be home, school, a foster home, community-based programs, our goal is to help support them where they need it the most. And that very much coincides with our mission. You know, our mission is to heal children, strengthen families and build community. And so with that said, I’m sorry, did you have a question?

00:02:27: Rico Figliolini

No, no, no.

00:02:28: RJ Encinas

Okay, cool. Sorry. So I loved CHRIS180. I think that’s, you know, obviously a big reason why I, you know, I was driven to come here. The diversity of the populations that we work with, the vast amount of programs that we have under our umbrella. The cool thing is CHRIS180 is actually an acronym as itself. It’s a standard for our core values. So creativity, honor, respect, integrity, safety, and the 180 itself represents change. As you know, our goal is to help change lives in the community that we serve.

00:03:07: Rico Figliolini

Wow. Great. That was a great overview. Where did you come from originally, RJ?

00:03:12: RJ Encinas

Arizona. Tucson, Arizona. Yep.

00:03:16: Rico Figliolini

You’re probably happy you left there, but the heat can be bad here too.

00:03:20: RJ Encinas

Well, you know, it’s funny because, you know, I talk to my family, you know, almost daily. I’m very close to my family and even the water pressure is hot when it’s on cold because it’s so hot there. So, yes, I’m loving this weather. That’s one of the things that I think that has made me most excited to live here is this incredible weather. Yeah.

00:03:38: Rico Figliolini

And it’s a little bit more seasonal to some degree. Although it’s changed a lot since 1995 when I first moved here. The weather has been just changed a bit. It stays cooler longer now, I think.

00:03:52: RJ Encinas

Oh, okay. Well, that’s a good thing.

00:03:53: Rico Figliolini

Yeah. But when it gets hot, it really gets hot and humid, so that doesn’t help. Yeah. So you guys opened up the Lawrenceville facility here in Gwinnett County, obviously Gwinnett is majority minority, the most diverse county in the state of Georgia, the largest county, I think still by population. It takes a lot of people to run a place. So one of the programs, let’s get right into it, I guess. Can you explain a little bit the trauma-informed care and what that means and how that’s an essential part of the service that CHRIS180 does?

00:04:32: RJ Encinas

Yeah, I mean, I think trauma-informed care, the easiest way to describe that is it’s providing services to children and families where it’s more of an element of looking at what’s, you know, not looking at what’s wrong with you versus what happened to you. How do we support you? How do we get, you know, what led up to this point of your life where we can help support you? And so part of what we do is we try to establish, you know, a foundation of where to start, a starting point, and then we take off from there. So, you know, with that said, you know, a lot of what we do here, we have a vast amount of services that we provide within our organization. We do, you know, there’s child parent psychotherapy, we have play therapy, psychiatric services. Here in Gwinnett, the office specifically has, it’s a counseling center. So we have, you know, a variety of therapists here who provide, you know, a great deal of different modalities when it comes to, you know, therapeutic interventions. Aside from that, where I come in, we have a wraparound program. It’s a huge program. And the positive is we have a bunch of specialties within our program. So specifically, the program that is housed here in Gwinnett is the birth to eight program. And so what we do is a lot of family approach, obviously, because the children are so young. And so we do a lot of, you know, ensuring that whoever is responsible, you know, in that home to help that home function well, that’s who we want to work with everybody as a unit. We also have our foster care and adopt program here as well. And that is growing. I think the positive is that we’ve always been a part of the community here in Gwinnett, working with clients and families. But I think it’s so astronomical to have an actual location here, to have a home base here where we can have people come in and provide that direct support. They see us, they see us as part of the community. And then also, you know, for people like me who live in Gwinnett, you know, it’s great to be able to have a touchdown, you know, to be able to come to every day and support, you know, in a different kind of way. I think we’ve gotten so used to, there’s so much virtual, I guess it’s just part of our life now, right? Since COVID. And so, you know, I think, you know, some of the things that I love is being able to have that direct interaction with not only, you know, people, community, but with the staff, you know, I think it’s such a different feel of the relationships you build and offering additional support to them in a way that is, I guess, you know, just plain different from, you know, this sort of conversation.

00:07:08: Rico Figliolini

Sure. And obviously we’re doing this remote too, so I can appreciate this started out as a remote podcast back during COVID, whereas we were in person before that for the most part. But it just makes life easier, right? You can talk to a lot of people on their schedule we’ve had podcasts you know people have been in the cars you know doing the podcast with me so it’s all fine it’s all good absolutely it works yeah so as far as so you mentioned quite a few programs so far yeah and play therapy, child parent, psychotherapy programs. Do you use technology at all? Does the nonprofit use sometimes Zoom calls even? I mean, are they?

00:07:55: RJ Encinas

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it’s not only like, you know, not only like you had said that it’s just, it’s part of the world now, you know, and it’s part of how we’ve developed, you know, but again, it’s also helped us to develop additional services and serving families that are unavailable. You know, if transportation is an issue, if they live, you know, further away, technology has really become pivotal in our ability to reach families at a greater distance. So, you know, even though we are here in person, we are a facility that offers counseling services, you know, face-to-face, we also offer virtual sessions as well. So we definitely use technology in lots of different ways and including some of our psychiatric services as well.

00:08:32: Rico Figliolini

Really? Excellent. Now, these services are provided free, obviously, right? There’s no going to insurance or anything like that. There’s a nonprofit supplying.

00:08:47: RJ Encinas

Yeah, it’s both. Yep. It’s both. Yeah. We definitely have grants contracts that help support families who are uninsured. So we definitely have that option, but yeah, typically, you know, we, you know, a lot of, a lot of our services are, I guess, like I said, it’s both, it helps, you know, it’s sort of like, let’s, our hope is to not say no ever, you know? And so it’s however we can help serve you, let’s find a way to serve you. So that’s typically our approach of how we look at things.

00:09:13: Rico Figliolini

Yeah. Okay. So with the new facility in Gwinnett County, how are you looking to integrate these services to the local community and within other organizations, if you will? Because I’m sure you’re reaching out to other community organizations.

00:09:27: RJ Encinas

Yeah. You know, actually last week we had an incredible open house. It was, it was super fun. Lots of sister community programs came out to say hello, which was wonderful of them. So, you know, I was here and actually, I made three really great, you know, contacts with people who I wouldn’t probably have otherwise. And so as of as early as of Monday, I was already receiving emails, phone calls from those people that I met. And you know, again, in a lot of instances, because you we, we know, aren’t such a huge presence here or weren’t, a lot of people didn’t know what we offered or what we still offer, you know, after COVID and whatnot. So there is a great need for our support services out here. So I think, you know, continuing that communication, establishing those relationships, those reports. There’s a lot of local businesses in this specific area we’re at. And so, you know, we’re supporting them as well by trying out all their different lunch menus during the week, you know. But I think aside from that, I think just showing our good work. I think that’s one of the biggest things is being able to establish a name for ourselves, you know, here in this particular area where, you know, families feel good and comfortable to come to us for help.

00:10:47: Rico Figliolini

Yeah. I, you know, with as much as what we do with the magazines that we have and stuff, I knew of CHRIS180, but didn’t really know all the services until I got in touch and someone said, why don’t you interview them for the podcast? You know, it’s just a lot of services you all provide. And I think that you’re right. I mean, quite a few people don’t know these services, right? And so the other one, I think the other part of the service I was going to ask you about, obviously collaboration and partnerships are essential to what you do. But with Gwinnett County and its court system, do you all work with the court system as well? Do you provide a program where you’re dealing with or getting referrals through the court system?

00:11:40: RJ Encinas

Yeah. So, I mean, that’s one of the, again, like how you mentioned having these relationships, you know, we have a lot of referral sources. And so we actually do have a juvenile justice program where we work directly with the courts. And so it’s supporting, you know, children who are in need in crisis. I guess to backpedal a little bit, the idea of wraparound services is to, you know, provide just that. We’re wrapping the family when they’re in crisis. So it’s sort of at the highest need. Let’s get them stable and kind of figure out at that point on what is needed next. How do we support you? Do we continue providing these support services? Is there addition? Is there not? So with the Juvenile Justice Program, you know, there’s a lot of court components in which we do help support families, whether that is involvement with the Department of Family and Child Safety, whether it is court order that they receive additional therapeutic services or interventions. So whatever it may be, we definitely have a lot of referral sources. But again, I think part of the relationship that I built last week is in addition to that as well with the court involvement. So, again, I think this is just starting to blossom into what it potentially could grow into.

00:12:53: Rico Figliolini

I like the way you talk about everything. It really is, you know, you may be dealing with a child that has some issues and stuff, but dealing with the whole family makes sense, right? Because maybe those issues are coming out because of parental issues, maybe because, you know, substance abuse within the family. And they may not be doing it, but they may be affected by it because of it, as they would. How do you handle the substance abuse in your programs also? Someone comes to you that way. Do you do that in-house? How do you handle someone that comes to you, obviously has some mental health issues, but also is doing substance abuse?

00:13:43: RJ Encinas

But like you had mentioned, such a variety of various programs that we offer here at CHRIS180. We do have therapists, so, you know, counselors who are specialized in treating children, and adults who have substance abuse problems and issues. What we do is, when we receive a referral or someone calls saying, hey, this is an issue at hand. We need help. What we do is we complete an initial assessment on the child and the family or whoever needs to be enrolled because we do support children and adults, families. And at that point, we then determine what is needed right now. If it is something that we are unable to do, which is probably very small because we have, again, so many great support programs. But if it is something that we’re not able to do and support in that moment, you know, we, part of our job is to find resources for family. That’s one of our biggest things, you know, and with the relationships built throughout, you know, the over, you know, over 40 years, you know, we have a lot of great connections in the sense of, hey, you know, I have this parent, this is the immediate support they need. What could this look like for them? So, you know, it’s also reaching out to, you know, who are the experts in, you know, particular areas. So we love the idea of collaboration. And so I think with that said, you know, it’s sort of the best part about it is that our goal is to try to individualize services for each person who’s enrolled. We don’t look at people with one particular issue and, you know, ballpark them at this is your issue. This is what you’re also going to receive, like, you know, the 400 other people that have that same issue. Our goal is to look at them as individuals and make sure that we’re tailoring those services to that particular person.

00:15:22: Rico Figliolini

I would imagine, you know, people coming to you, I mean, they’re being overwhelmed by issues in their lives, by challenges. And I can see how getting that under control makes sense first before you can treat the byproduct of what’s going on. So what challenges are you finding? Now, I know you’ve just moved here, but in society, you know, since COVID, since things, I’m assuming you’ve worked in this field for quite a while though, right? Do you see any difference coming to, I know it’s such a short time, but do you see any different types of challenges in the Southeast here, let’s say, in Atlanta that you’re listening to versus Arizona? Or is it the same?

00:16:17: RJ Encinas

Yeah. I mean, I think it varies, obviously, where you live. I think there’s different challenges depending on, you know, your location, your environment. But, you know, I think one of the things that is consistent is, you know, there are families who need help who are, you know, what is now the new norm in regards to the challenges children and families face was probably what we considered, you know, high acuity population that we worked with five, six years ago, because the world has changed so dramatically resources and just, you know, the ability to get, you know, what’s needed, you know, now it’s sort of like a lot of some of these cases we hear the it’s, ability to you get, what’s know, you needed, now know, it’s sort of like a lot of some of these cases we hear it’s, they’re very traumatic, they’re very tragic. And it’s sort of, you know, not you don’t want to normalize it, but you want to look at it as okay, I guess this is now the new challenges that we have that maybe we didn’t have before, or is one of those once in a while things you heard where now it just seems more consistent. So everything seems to have elevated severely over the past four or five years. But yeah, we’re ready for whatever comes. Our goal is to try to help them in the best possible way.

00:17:37: Rico Figliolini

Sure. No, I appreciate that. You’ve expanded. Because of the expansion, there’s probably, you have more services and all that. There are challenges in doing it in a new place. And it sounds like you’ve overcome that a bit by networking, by meeting all sorts of new people and finding new resources that you can use and other people that want to reach back out to you. How do you measure the success or the impact of the programs that you have? You know, moving forward, how do you do that? Is that something you have to do?

00:18:14: RJ Encinas

Yeah, no, I mean, I think what we do is we try to make sure we’re effective. So there’s a lot of, you know, areas in which we are monitoring it just from, you know, plain data. You know, how many successful closures have we had? How many families have graduated successfully from services? We also look at enrollment. You know, how many new members have we had since, you know, this announcement has gone out? Or how many new families have been interested in roles? How many new referrals have we received? How many additional relationships have we built within the community? You know, are we in their schools? Are we in their hospitals? Are we in their foster homes? So again, I think it’s a variety, you know, and I think that it’s hard to say just one thing, but, you know, I think you have to have both, you know, you have to have that, you know, the numbers and those, you know, obvious factors that show, you know, are our services effective? Are they working? And then you have to have that, you know, other component where it is very community-based. And what does that look like for us, you know, in this particular community? How can we improve? Because there’s always room for improvement. And what are we doing well? You know, those are the things that I like to always look at when looking at it as a whole. But I do, you know, one of the things that I was going to say earlier, too, is I think, you know, at least in this area, everybody has been so welcoming. It has felt so natural. It hasn’t felt like, hey, you’re the new kid on the block or, you know, anything like that. It has truly felt, it feels like we’ve always been here, at least in my perception. And so I think that is also motivating because it makes you feel like, you know, if this is how we’re accepted, if this is how it feels, you know, being, again, the new kids on the block, you know, it just kind of makes you want to then get out there and see, you know, what else there is to offer here. I’m a big fan of growth. I love the idea of making sure that we could potentially, you know, be even bigger than we already are. And so, you know, I think my brain is always kind of going with, you know, kind of like a hamster wheel, figuring out what is next for us? Where is an area that is underserved that we maybe have not tapped in yet? Or how can we improve an area that already exists, but maybe we can make some adjustments to it?

00:20:29: Rico Figliolini

Interesting. I’m sure that you have lots of ideas. And as the time goes on, you’ll get even more. Yeah, Gwinnett County is kind of funny that way. Gwinnett has a lot of nonprofits that work here. A lot of like Norcross Cooperative Ministries. I mean, there’s quite a few of them, actually. Good Samaritan of Gwinnett County. I mean, there’s quite a few programs out there, quite a few nonprofits and companies that are involved in these programs as well, corporations that want to make sure their employees have good mental wellness. When you’re doing the work you’re doing, what programs do you think you’d like to see in the coming year or two that you all are not yet doing that you think would have an impact here?

00:21:23: RJ Encinas

Yeah. So, you know, we just, we actually are in the process. So it’s a great question because we’re actually in the process of starting up a crisis response program. So it kind of fits parallel with the wraparound because, you know, the services that we are providing are intensified services for children and family who are in crisis. And so the crisis element of it allows us to support them on those odd times, right? So, you know, after 7pm, before 8am, if we’re struggling to get the child in, you know, into the car for school for that day, or whatever the circumstance may be, and then obviously much more severe than that. But you know, on weekends, on holidays, we want to make sure that we’re available to, you know, to the families that need our help at those particular times where they may not have a resource at that time. So that’s actually brand new. We are in the, you know, we’ve done some good work on establishing what that will look like. And so I know that once, you know, the community gets wind of that’s what, you know, that’s an additional service we offer. I know it’s going to blow up just because it’s a great resource to have for the families that we already work with. But aside from that, I think, you know, to add to what you’re saying, I think my goal would be to create, you know, a standing point for the wraparound program here in Gwinnett as well. You know, I know that the program that one of the specific programs that we have that’s housed here is the Berta 8, but we have a lot of other programs that are wonderful. You know, we have programs that are that part of their responsibility is to work primarily in the school system. So working with children throughout the day, we know resources are scarce at schools. And so having that additional support there, some training for teachers, administrators on how to manage some of these behavioral issues with some of the children that are there, emotional support. We also have specified programs that work with, like I said, the juvenile justice program. And then those, another program that we have is also those who work directly with children and families who are involved in the Department of Family Child Safety. And so again, it’s establishing what those could be in this location. Maybe we have some in the metro area, downtown, but we also have a group here because it’s grown so much. So, you know, looking at an expansion of, you know, wraparound, you know, in-home, in-community services.

00:23:54: Rico Figliolini

So you guys do go into people’s homes as well. And you go into the school system of schools, I guess elementary schools, birth to eight, right? You go into the schools as well. How do you ensure, you know, that’s kind of an odd question maybe a little bit, but, you know, when you talk about trying to make sure everyone is, that you meet the needs of everyone, right? And it’s a diverse community between language and culture. Foods, which we talked about just a little bit before the podcast. We both agree that we enjoy food. But how do you culturally keep everything – be able to reach out to these people that need it. Sometimes it’s a language barrier. Sometimes it’s a cultural thing beyond the normal, you know, nine to five, maybe they both parents are working. It’s hard to get to them during the day. How do you attend to a child then like that? But how do you handle, does that, is that an issue even?

00:25:05: RJ Encinas

You know, I think one of the things that we consider is that, you know, with the wraparound service, you know, specifically is, you know, like you said, we do go into the home. So the service itself is very intrusive because you have a stranger in the home saying, Hey, let’s try this. But, you know, part of, you know, I did that job too. You know, I, you know, every, everybody kind of starts somewhere. And so I’ve been in the homes, I’ve worked with children and families in the home. And, you know, something that I did that I felt made families feel more comfortable is just be observant. You know, what, what are the pictures you have up? What are the awards you have up? You know, what are you making for dinner? You know, what, what are your habits when they get home? So it’s really establishing sort of a starting point where, what are they doing well? What can I work off of? You know, every family does, there are things that every family does well. And so that’s, that for the most part is sort of, you know, how I like to look at services, how I’ve trained my staff is, you know, looking at the strengths they already have and let’s work off of those strengths. But yes, you’re right. You know, our goal, you know, having parents and, you know, guardians who go to school, work, those are all positives in the child and family’s life, right? So we want to be able to support them outside of that, where it doesn’t interfere with their typical tasks. And so our prime time to support families should be that two to seven block because that’s when kids are, you know, home from school, parents are getting home from work. And so really it’s providing services during that time. And we also provide services on the weekend as well. So if the family is home, you know, and they’re all, that’s the best time that fits, you know, the need for them, then, you know, we’ll arrange that. And so, you know, I think what we do, we also have something called, it’s called a YCM. And what it is, is it’s a youth centered meeting where we sit probably every 30 to 45 days with the entire treatment team and the family. And we talk about what’s going well, where are some improvements needed? What’s next? What is the next plan? You know, are we stepping down because of the progress made? Do we need to increase support services somehow? So that meeting is very powerful because it’s all driven and ran by the family. It’s their voice, it’s their need, it’s their want. And so our goal is to help support them in what they also feel is the right direction for their family. So to answer a long-winded answer, but I think part of it is it’s a combination of things. But I also feel that having their voice heard, not just in services, but as a group is extremely powerful.

00:27:47: Rico Figliolini

The powerful part, I think, is when the whole family cooperates, right? Have you ever experienced where there’s uncooperative people within the unit?

00:28:01: RJ Encinas

That is a challenge, absolutely. Because sometimes people don’t want the services, they have to have the services. And so part of it is, you know, getting their buy-in to say, Hey, look, let’s, let’s try it. Let’s try it and see what happens, you know? And that’s, you know, and I think that we have such great staff, you know, here at CHRIS180, that people are very persuasive because they’re so good at what they do. And so it starts to show the families, like, look at this progress that is being made, you know, and it’s not taking a lot of work from you. It’s just taking some, you know, habitual practices and just obviously, you know, exploring what it could look like. And so I think with that said, yes, absolutely, there’s a lot of resistance in some instances. But, you know, with that said, I think for me, it’s a motivating factor. It’s sort of like, let’s show them why they need us in their home, why they need us at, you know, for therapy. And for me, that’s sort of how I look at that is just an additional challenge. Yeah.

00:29:00: Rico Figliolini

I guess one of the things I should ask too is jobs your organization has. But do you expect to expand that staff? Is it easy to find the right people or is that a difficult proposition?

00:29:15: RJ Encinas

I think it’s, you know, I think like any, you know, job force, I think our goal is to always try to find the best fit for that position, that location, the need of that location, you know, and so, you know, I don’t know if hard is the right word, but, you know, I think we do a great job of ensuring that, you know, that the person that we’re selecting for that role is the best person for that role. But yes, absolutely. Like you said, like my goal is to expand. So hopefully, yes, in the near future, I get to hire a whole bunch of people because it is the need here in this specific area. But absolutely, I would love to grow.

00:29:53: Rico Figliolini

Yeah. The need never disappears. It actually increases. You’re right. Have we missed anything, RJ, that you’d like to talk about that I didn’t touch upon?

00:30:06: RJ Encinas

No, I think, you know, I just, I’m excited. This is a huge privilege. So I appreciate you having an interest in what we’re doing here in Gwinnett. And, you know, hopefully this continues to spread the good word of CHRIS180. The people before me have done a great job of establishing what CHRIS180 is today. And, you know, my goal, you know, my goal is to continue to live that on and, you know there’s, for me, it’s, you know, there’s a lot of, you know, motivating factors, like I had mentioned before, that have me excited to, you know, wake up and, you know, work every day.

00:30:53: Rico Figliolini

Excellent. If someone wants to find out a little bit more about CHRIS180, where can they go to? What’s the website?

00:30:59: RJ Encinas

Yeah. So our website is great. It literally lists every single thing that we do. It talks about our mission and values. Our website is chris180.org.

00:31:10: Rico Figliolini

Great. Everyone, I appreciate you listening in on this. If you have family members or people you know that you think need CHRIS180, certainly reach out to them and find out what they can provide for you all and call them. Their service has just opened in Lawrenceville, expanding into Gwinnett County. RJ Encinas, thank you for being with me and for explaining everything to us.

00:31:35: RJ Encinas

Thank you so much, Rico, for having me. Yeah, thanks for having me.

00:31:37: Rico Figliolini

Hang in there for a minute, but everyone else, thank you. If you have comments, certainly post it on, if you’re listening to this on YouTube or our Facebook pages, post it there or reach out to the organization itself. And again, thank you for being a listener of our podcast, UrbanEbb. Thanks so much.