got a prolapsed disk

[Oh Balls!]

I couldn't agree more I have had problems with Disc Prolapses and Sciatic pain for the last 20 years. For the last month I was unable to walk or do anything except lie flat without excruciating pain. I had a microdiscectomy 6 days ago and I am now walking to the park twice a day with my kids and I have had no leg pain at all. I am absolutely delighted with the results
so far I couldn't of dreamed for a better outcome I have got my life back again and hope to go back to work in about 3/4 weeks.

When the first consultant who I had seen a couple of times previously last year suggested
surgery I was very sceptical and went to get a second opinionand the second consultant gave the same opinion. I continued to hope the pain would subside as it had on previous occasions however if anything it was getting worse despite a cocktail of drugs and physio.

Unfortunately had I waited to see a consultant on the NHS and then wait for the surgery on the waiting list it would have taken me at least 9 months in my area(South EastLondon).
I was lucky enough to have the savings to pay for this myself privately thus saving myself
8 months of additional pain not to mention the fact I am self-employed and hence would have had no income whatsoever, so the surgery will pay for itself. This has seriously dented my faith
in the NHS and will now seriosuly look at medical insurance which previously I had always
thought was overpriced and unnecessary.

 

[***Sugar Lady***]

Got a bit of an update of whats wrong with my back now, ive finally got a letter from my consultant showing the problems.Forward flexion is reduced to 50% and extension very limited. Disc dehydration and minor loss of height at L3/4 L4/5 L5/S1 with a lesser degree of dehydration at L2/3 and a prolapsed disc (cannot find sheet for disc number).Ive got two tears also somewhere in wih that lot.

He said there is no point in surgery on me as it would make no difference with me having more than two dehydrated discs. He said it would not repair itself and that it cannot be 'just fixed'. He reccomended steroid injections into my spine around the discs, four in total. Does this really help with the pain? My current medication does nothing for me, 300mg tramadol and 600mg diclofenac a day and 10 mg of amitriptyline to help me sleep if i need it at night.

Any advice on this problem would be gratefully appreciated.

 

[Synti]

Hi all

I have read through this thread and i'm starting to feel fortunate!!

I have a prolapse disk L5/S1 paracentral and a smallannular tear on left side. myDisc space has considerable dehydration

This i believe has been caused by a very poor posture at work i'm 6'4" and my chosen sport which is body building..

This happened i believe about 4 weeks ago the burning pain in my leg is starting to slowly subside which my consultant says is the disc dehydrating further.
The pain two weeks after was unbearable...ended up going to doctors in spain for daily antiflamatory injections which did nothing..the diclafenic caused me to urinate blood...now on Celebrex

Today i have started a 6 week physio course i am told i have a grade 4 injury after 6 weeks i may need steriod injections.

As i am very active i was more than willing to have either injections or an op to resolve quickly......i have been advised to avoid both of these...

I have also been told i will need to change my lifestyle.

I will keep everybody up to date with my progress.

It seems my experiance is minor to everybody else so i wish you all the best and try to stay positive....

 

[Delauria]

Hi i used to be chrisjt but for some reason i cannot use that sign in name any more so Bodger will do for now.I saw a specialist 10 days ago and he says i need an epidural and will send me for it a s a p .I put it to him that they were not a success in most cases to which he seemed miffed and sail he had a 100% success rate. However he did qualify this by saying that the injection is not meant to be a cure!! He said none can cure a prolapsed disc and that even operations don't cure the condition." You have it so you have to cope with it
I said that i would go tomorrow but of course I'll have to wait but for how long i ask.
I'm going to see the Doc' next Monday to see if he can it any "hurry up".
Will keep you posted. Bodger or chrisjt

 

[some half blood]

Its been about 5 months now and im still in a lot of pain. Ive got more movement now and im trying to start back at work again but now im behind a counter with no heavy lifting so hopefully ill be able to manage. Im hoping to have facet joint injections done soon to help with the pain, im due to have four done at once, one above and below my discs on either side of my spine, ill let you know if they help or not. Ive got an appointment at the pain clinic at my local hospital on the NHS to discuss further treatments but im not holding my breath that they will be able to rid me of this problem any time soon. Ive had a few days behind the counter at work and my back seems to be aching more than usual but i hate being sat at home i like to be at work earning my way. My meds have changed to 2 30mg tablets 3 times a day of dihydrocodine and diclofenac (sp) but they dont really help. I try to keep the doseage down when i can because i dont want to have to rely on tablets the rest of my life. Ill keep this thread updated if and when i get some different treatment that helps.

 

[`~$$r0x~`]

Hello all, ive got another update on my back now, for anyone whos been following this thread.

Ive just had my facet joint injections on the 11th december and four days later my back is feeling a lot better than what is has been doing for the last few months. They have not got rid of all the pain but it has meant i can cut down on the amount of tablets i take a day. I still have to take some of them but they seem to do more now than what they did before the injections. I was recently put on Baclofen tablets, a muscle relaxant, and they worked well for about a week, i seem to get used to most things pretty quickly and the effect they have on the pain gets less and less with each day.

I would recommend the injections to people suffering with back pain like mine, i can bend more, lift more, be more comfy walking around, get a better nights sleep!!!

They only took around 15 mins to do. It was done under local anasthetic and the consultant said he would start with four and see how i go and try and get six. I wondered what he meant at first and so asked him if i was going to feel it. YES was his answer which started me getting nervous. I was bent forward over a table in the theatre, with my bum showing to the world, and he started with 2 local injections to numb the area then he put 2 bigger needles in ready for the steroid. He kept asking if i was ok and it was'nt too bad really so he set up the 3rd needle for the left side. Then came the steroid and thats when it started to hurt more. It was like someone digging their thumb into a tender part on my back. He did the 3rd steroid injection and i had to have a bit of oxygen to help me relax more. Two minutes later he had got the other needles all set up in my back and was pushing the steroid into my right side. I barely noticed it once i had had the oxgen mask on to calm me down. For a few hours afterwards i seemed to have no pain and could reach down in bed and almost touch my toes, before i could just reach my knees and be in pain. Ive got physio to do again now and will be back to see the consultant in six weeks for a follow up meeting. Hopefully i will be more on the road to recovery by then and be able to do things everyone else can do, play football, do the decorating, go to the gym etc. Today i was told about a place that does accupuncture and apparently the guy who does it is very good and can leave you feeling relaxed for days afterwards. I think i will give it a try again, the last time i had it i may as well had stuck sewing needles in my own back for all the help it did.

Sorry for the long post but hopefully it may encourage others to have the injections, it has given me more hope that i will be able to do normal stuff once more.

Kev.

 

[Karamore(:]

Hi- I'm glad you found facet injections useful-not really alternative therapy unless you count the inevitable placebo effect though! Seriously, I have done facet injections for the last 13 years, probably on about 1000 patients and there is certainly a placebo effect which confounds the issue but I think it works on about 60%. This is pretty good for back treatment and at least the risk of doing harm is slight.
Looking through the postings I am alarmed by the importance given to MRI changes. I report these too and "black" discs are certainly abnormal but not an indication that this is the cause of pain. Like white hair is not an indication of senility. Even a disc prolapse on MRI may not be the cause of pain and you should certainly not jump to surgery since there is a good chance that this will make things worse. It has been shown that the more MRI scans done, the more backs get surgery and the worse the patients outcome. If you are considering surgery your orthopaedic surgeon should be trying to talk you out of it!
Following the principle of "first do no harm" I would recommend facet injections before surgery but it is only a temporary measure I tell patients to expect 3-6 month relief.

 

[Dancer101]

Ive been told by the consultants that the pain im getting is not from the black discs but from the nerves being squashed slightly due to the discs dehydrating and losing some height. I am not a candidate for surgery with me having at least 3 dehydrated discs. They can operate on 1-2 discs and show an improvement but there is no improvement after surgery with 3 or more dehydrated discs. This was found through research done on coal miners in the late 80's. Some of the miners showed the black discs and lived a normal life with next to no pain while others had slightly black discs and were in extreme pain all of the time. There is still not enough known about the causes of dehydrated discs and why some people experiance pain whiles others do not.

Im finding as the days go on since the injections that i am still having to take the pain killers nearly as often as before them. I was told that they are not a cure to my problem but that they might take away more of the pain so that i can do more intensive physio to strengthen the muscles in my back so that i can lead a normal life, im only 24.

 

[terry t]

Kev,
The black discs are called dessicated discs but it is not certain that there is a loss of water causing this appearance but there is a change in chemical structure. This is not a cause of pain. There are various causes of pain but its not well worked out. The most straight forward is when the soft central part of the disc is squeezed out and presses on a nerve as it passes out through the spinal canal. This causes sciatica i.e. pain down a leg clearly related to the region supplied by that nerve-usually the back of the calf. The prolapse often shrinks back with time but these patients also do well with surgery or chemolysis (dissolving the centre of the disc with enzymes). Sometimes the pain comes from nerve fibres in the disc itself when there is an annular tear and this can be confirmed with discography (horrible to do and to have done!). If this is confirmed then some surgeons will fuse the spine across the abnormal disc or possibly two ( I think this is what your surgeon is referring to). More than two levels is hardly ever done. Other times the abnormal disc loses height and this puts stress on the facet joints which then become swollen and eventually arthritic. These can cause pain like any other joint and the pain may be felt down a leg because the nerve that goes down the leg has a branch to the facet but the swollen joint can also press on the nerve and, again cause a sciatica type pain. No-one seems to operate on these but sometimes the swelling is so much (generally in the elderly) that the whole spinal canal is narrowed which causes pain on walking down both legs (spinal claudication). Steroid injections reduce some of the swelling and reduce inflamation.
I presume your surgeon did the injection using X-ray guidance. These joints are tiny and deep and I know of people (some medically qualified too) who claim they can inject them by feel. I'm not sure whether it makes much difference whether you inject into the joint or round the outside but I'm pretty sure they cannot safely get within several cm of the joint blindly. If you had some relief it might be worth another try-its not a once and for all treatment. There are some people trying to freeze or burn the nerves to the facets but much of this is driven by private practice and the manufacturers of the equipment and I would steer clear. These nerves grow back.
There are people trying Botox to relieve spasm (which often agrevates the pain) but I have no experience of this.
I would say stick with facet injections once more. I prefer to inject the upper end of the joints so that steriod also seeps around the nerve as it passes next to it but I know the radiologists in Oxford inject the nerve and the facet as separate procedures-I prefer a belt and braces approach.
Regards and good luck

 

[luiselbatigol1981]

The surgeon did it with the help of X-rays and my mri scans. I did not know about the fact it can cause artheritis in the joints. Do you know how many injections of steroid can be done in a year? I was told that i can only have so much per year and that if i had, for example, 10 injections, the doses would be quite small in each injection, like i could have 100mg steroid in either 1 injection or 10 injections, is this right?

 

[inquisitive_1]

Good evening Kev,
There is no firm evidence on the number of injections or dose. I tell my patients that they can be repeated 3 times a year but, to be honest, if they need them more often than that the injections probably haven't worked and I don't want these patients coming back every few weeks and blocking up my clinics. (This applies to private patients too-there are too many rip off merchants around who would be too happy to have patients come back every other week just so that they can take their money). The dose I use is 20mg Triamcinolone (a long acting steroid) per joint- 10-20 mg is the dose for smaller jionts elsewhere so I just chose this dose- no scientific evidence to back it up. The joints are small and the steriod is mixed with anaesthethic giving a volume of 1 ml. It is difficult to get even this amount into the joint so some must squirt back out when the needle is pulled out.
It sounds like just the x-ray and MRI still pictures were used to plan your injections rather than real-time x-ray screening. You would have had to be under an x-ray machine for x-ray guided injection. This is how they are often done because the radiologists are a bit possessive about their machines and the surgeons are possessive about their patients so the patients and the x-ray machines never meet up. I started doing them in the x-ray department because it freed up theatre space for more complicated operations but it works well for us. If it was done without x-ray screening all the more reason to have another try with it when it wears off.

 

[Sist]

The real time x-rays are what i meant for when he decided where to put them. They came up on the screen in front of him so he could see where they were going. He left me a copy of one of the x-rays to show where all six had gone in. I was bent over on the bed and the machine was hovvered over me to take the pictures. It was done in a private hospital through medical insurance so i guess they were not bothered about how much it cost for the procedure unlike if it was done under the NHS.
Thanks for your advice on what they inject and how often it can be done, i dont see the point in going back every couple of weeks for more injections to be done, like you said if it hasnt worked the first few times its not worth keep re-doing the procedure and its time to look at other options.

 

[Lucian Luna]

My unqualified opinion would be to get a decent bed, when I changed my bed to a harder bed it cleared up my pained back

 

[snowbison]

Ive been and ordered a new one today and its coming within two weeks. Its a divan bed with a nice firm matteress. I layed on it and the springs supported my back loads more than my current bed. Its quite high too so when i get out of it i dont have as far to stand up, ive currently got my matteress on the floor which is better than on the bedstead for some reason but getting out of it means having to use my back a lot more first thing in the morning which is not easy.

 

[Mitsuko]

Hi

I too am relatively young...26 and suffer a prolapsed L5/S1 disc. I found out yesterday but have been in agony on and off for at least 3 years

Im frustrated and annoyed and mad!!

I guess i just wanted to find out how other people cope with this in every day life and things that have worked for them

I am trying to drink lots of water, im trying glucosamine and zinc and when Im able to i will try to walk. I seem to ahve episodes or weeks where im bad then weeks when im ok and weeks when im fine.
My doctor also said he would expect to see this amount of prolapse in a 80 yr old whats with that??

Regards

Bec

 

[Danger]

Hi bex,

IVe tried glucosamine and chlorontin (sp?) tablets and they did nothing for me, except try to choke me with the size of them. Ive had my tablets changed recently to dihrdrocodine,baclofen,amitriptline,arthrotec,omaprazole and basic paracetomal. The paracetomal does nothing on its own for the pain but with the cocktail of other drugs it does help.
Have you been having physio? My new physio has had me doing core excersises to strengthen my lower back and it seems to be helping more. It is only a basic excersise, breathe out/pull in stomach as far as you can/hold for ten seconds but keep breatheing, but it helps to strengthen the muscles of your natural corset which supports your back.
Ive just had my new bed delivered with a firm matteress and ive been getting a better nights sleep with less pain in the morning due to being properly supported. When i lay down i dont get instant pain/spasm of my back anymore so its been a good investment. With having less pain during the night i wake up feeling more relaxed and the day goes much better without all the aches that i used to get, i still get good/bad days just more are good now

I dont know what causes the early onset on the back problems but my consultant thinks it could be genetic but he cant say for sure. Go to 10 different consultants and they will all tell you something different caused it.

Facet joint injections might be worth while for you, they are availabe on the nhs, you have to ask for a refferal from your doc to the pain clinic at your local hospital. Im not sure if they worked for me or if the physio has helped to sort my back out, its probably a mix of everything that has got me feeling better. Im even able to do the decorating in the house now, a few months ago i struggled to wash the pots so ive come on a long way from when it all started last may. Ive got three+ dehydrated discs from L5/S1 upto L1/L2 and a prolasped disc mixed in and i seem to be getting better so there must be hope for others with similar problems.

Try to not let it get you down, that can be the worse part of it. Just try to take it easy during your good weeks and the bad ones should get fewer and fewer.

 

[Tigerbears]

Hi! found this site whilst looking for something else. . . . .

I was a Marie Curie nurse for years and decided at 40 that working and lifting terminal patients on my own was getting a bit heavy for meand maybeit was time to give it up and go work nightsin a Sue Ryder home. ( 29 patients versus 2 staff members ) Had been there 3 months and even tho lady I worked withwas 6 inches taller than I we lifted great together andfor us it worked. Loved the job. Unfortunatly my work partner went of sick and they got a replacment in. NOW! this girl had on a staff nurses uniform. . . We went to turn James. We placed our hands under him I said ok then ? she said yes. I said 1 2 3 lift. . . . . I lifted she stepped back.James went into spasm and feel on me. Itwist as we went down. James landed on me so he had a soft landing I look at the other nurse and saidwhy did you let go. Her reply was. . I have never lifed anyone before this is my first time nursing. So she had, hadno training just the uniform! For me, that one moment changed my life. I lay in a drugged haze and looked at theceilings for 2 years. At first, just someone moving near me was terrible. Up shot was lost my husband. Missed out on the growing up of my youngest 2 children. BUT the spirtual lesson I learnt was huge. Learnt to communicate with and work for spirit.
BUT. . . DIHYDOCODEINE ( DF118 ). Prescription only and isvery good at controlling the pain. Although be warned it can make you constipated which has the knock on effectof making the pain worse. (So sort the diet.) AND take VERY gentle exercise. . Yoga is good, which I now teach. Good luck!

Namasat Gillie

 

[Thomas Bk]

Hi all,

I too have a prolapsed disc and sympathise totally with everyone, it's horrible. It's been4 months now. Tried Chiropractor and acupuncture before I had a Cortisone injection 7 weeks ago and am on anti inflammatory pills, Paracetemol and Diazapam. The drug haze is bringing me down and I am still in pain...aching buttocks and sciatica. No doubt I am much better than I was around Christmas but any length of time on my feetleads tonumb legs and dull ache in one or both legs. I also have an occasional daggerlike hip thing going on.

I figure I have two options. Take to my bed forever or dig deep and face up to it. I really want to fight this thing and feel like throwing caution to the wind and at the very least getting back in the pool for some exercise. Can I do myself more damage by ignoring the pain and start getting back to normal? My physio says It's normal to still have discomfort and that I should get active but it really really hurts and to be honest I am scared.

I would appreciate anyone's advice. Is it normal to still be in pain? How long can it take to heal? Do I have to accept that pain is going to be a way of life from now on?

Thanks so much

 

[whizzer 360.]

Many excellent feeds from those in the field, and from those with DIRECT experience.

I work as a movement therapist/ health practitioner, who has had a prolapsed disk, and would like to offer a different perspective.

Of course, many of the conditions (outlined above), have different causes and levels of severity, so the response will be different in each case.

My suggestion (again dependant upon how drugged up one is), is this: When lying down (rest), whether in bed or on the floor, FOCUS on your breathing. If possible, bend the knees to 90 degrees (or a position of comfort); this will have a de-compressive effect on your spine, and may go some way to pain-relief. Now, place both hands on the belly (lower tantien in tai-chi/ taoist practices). This WILL create an energetic potential between your hands and belly (abdomen). This personal sensitivity, will enable you to deepen your breathing, and willcreate elastic movement of breathing, more deeply than is the norm'. This postion is most similar to the basic lying position, found in Alexander Technique. When practised regularly, you may find that your belly becomes warm & you FEEL a sense of energy growing there (belly-button area). What now? Well, in Taoism/ tai-chi, this would be labelled chi; which then with practice of INTENTION, can be directed to the area needing it most (disks et al). Again,it is impossible to focus on anything else, if you are focused on your breathing (pain aside). Although this may make the pain more apparent, I would suggest this IS part of the healing process. Call it BECOMING AWARE of your/ the pain. Only if we are aware of something, can we heal it.

NB: When in pain, the muscles spasm to control & suppress movement, AS DOES PAIN. It is there (PAIN), as amessage to get you to STOP & PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR BODY. THINK about that!!! Before we experience this type of pain, how much attention we DO pay to OUR body. In general, not much...

Exercise methods, such as tai-chi & yoga teach help you to re-member your physical energetic potential, and sustain balance/ life... naturally.

On a final note, I use this breathing method (embryonic breathing) with every client, as it forms a foundation for excellent posture... breathe precedes movement.

Wish you all well ~ M

 

[hjfbv1]

Hi guys,

I am 24 and been suffering with a prolapsed disc for 2 years now.

I cannot tell you how relieved I am just to find this discussion board!! Finally feel like I am not alone in my illness!!

I have been in physio for 2 years on and off, and that has not really helped me much at all.
I've also been taking DICLOFENAC and CO-DYDROMOL and DIAZEPAM for the pain and they help me but only temporarily and they all have side-effects I hate - the diclofenac give me SUCH bad heart burn it's agonising!

Anyway, I have been to the doctors this morning and cried my eyes out saying I felt helpless and now, after TWO YEARS, the NHS are sending me to see a specialist at the hospital...I have never even been given an MRI scan and I have been in A&E 3 times!!

I have come to the conclusion that the NHS in my area (North London) is SOOOO drastically exhausted and that this is making me worse in that my back is a lot worse now than it was 2 years ago, and id I'd been on private healthcare I'd've been sorted right from the start.

I went to see a private oesteopath, which is £40 for half an hour, and that helped me but I only went 2 or 3 times and I cannot afford to go again.

The oesteopath said he thinks that the nerve has irritated my joint and that that is now also a cause of the pain - does this sound correct to anybody?

When I walk and I put my hand on the back of my hip I can feel a VERY disctinct clicking and this is worrying me also.

Any advice would be great.

Thanks guys.

Thom
: )