Naturist massage - bare issues

[Duoglssk]

I've had lomi lomi massage completely unclothed and loved it. I also had a hot stone massage where I was asked whether I was comfortable being unclothed as it was possible to get better sweeps over the hips etc, again no problem at all.

 

[Cerebandis]

Well said Paul. I tend to keep my own council and not post too frequently but 'leasianna's' comments moved me to stick my oar in. Maybe because I'm a 64 year old male therapist! I can't remember the last time I 'stared' at a clients body. Young, old, fat, thin, black or white. As a Lomi Lomi practitioner I look beyond the flesh to the 'body within'. Quite often I masage with my eyes closed. I don't want to get to 'spiritual' but I treat the person. What they look like is immaterial.

 

[Clo !]

I have to agree with Pauls comments as well

I had absolutly no idea what this male client looked like or how old he was - the point I was making was that at the time when I was new and nervous I didnt want to have a naked man on my couch and despite offering details of a couple of therapists in his area he kept ringing me, trying to get me to change my mind and I felt bullied.

This was a few years ago now and I am more relaxed around male clients and also have been working in a clinic which has a largely male clientel (osteopathy clinic) - like one of the other girls said in a prev post I trust my gut reaction to callers male/female
At the time I was new and mobile and ItEC were so anal about covering everything up

 

[Ann M]

Dont old men need massages too? People of all ages, sizes, shapes, wrinkles or not, saggy bits or not, deserve to be treated as the PEOPLE they are not just bodies that you label as "old and wrinkly" because they do not fit the stereotype of what you like to look at naked. You shouldnt even be starring at the body for an hour, you should be treating the person as the whole person they are. Massaging with your hands and intuition not your eyes. Get over yourself. Did he actually ask you to stare at his body for an hour or to massage him for an hour? Dont for a second assume that its just men who ask for naturist massages as i know male therapists who have women ringing up for naturist etc. A good therapist comes from within and no matter how highly you rate your own level of attractiveness you just made yourself possibly the least attractive therapist by your short sighted comments. I only hope your clients dont pick up on your attitude as you are massaging them. Remember one day you will be old and wrinkly so will your partner!!!

 

[jxr182]

I agree, perhaps a special forum in the Lifestyle section is appropriate

 

[Pompal 09.]

Regarding item B - how significant is it for the therapist to be a naturist too - It is difficult to explain, but it is somewhat important to me - it is just a more natural and open, even mental aspect to the massage when they are a naturist also

 

[T??k G??l]

I have found that some of the males who have made enquiries dont actually know what they want in as much they ask for a naturist massage but what they actually mean is that they want to be naked - I have had several gents who have been really embarrassed when I have asked them if they realise what they are asking for - that said a couple have become clients so not so bad

 

[CL3VZ323]

I'm not sure I understand you question stevehoff. As a naturist I like to spend as much time as possible naked. Weather/temperature/social situation permitting I like to be unclothed be it gardening, decorating, cooking, cleaning, swimming etc. Massage is just anoher activity where I am quite happy being naked both as a resipient and a pracitioner. If I was receiving a massage from a therapist who wasn't a naturist I would not expect them nor would I ask them to be naked. Similarly I would not myself be naked massaging a client who was not a naturist although they may be naked while recieving a massage. Naturism is a lifestyle choice and most naturists are very accepting and tolerant of other peoples views and opinions. I don't know if that anwers your query but I hope it helps.

 

[Raz]

I have the same problems Sarah. What I really find amusing is when I get an enquiry from a naturist who, after getting confirmation that the massage will be conducted in a naturist enviroment, will still ask if the theapist will be naked!

 

[$D@VI3$]

oops

 

[Rana]

Sorry- I'm a real newbie to this excellent Forum- and perhaps I am being too green.

However the discussion here reminds me of one of the 1970s trade union debates about productivity when the Japanese were outside the conference doors sweeping all industry before them.

In London (where I am), huge numbers of people now use Gumtree for sourcing therapists. There is a problem with dodgy therapists, but they can usually be spotted from the wording of the adverts. There are a lot of genuine excellent practitioners on these listings. Many are foreign.

Most people I know use them for home visiting services. So do I. All the therapists tell me that they get pestered by men asking for "extras" and all sorts of additions. However (whilst upsetting) they are easily screened out or told to climb a tree.

The vast majority of these therapists are content for their clients to be undraped- indeed from my experience that is the market standard. Therapists who insist otherwise say so on their adverts. On a number of occasions I have not even been asked whether I wanted to be draped- but sex (or "extras") have never been asked for or given (or even considered). I have never had a lomi lomi practitioner ask for draping.

In the current market the debate on this thread is therefore not relevant to most clients. I UNDERSTAND why certain therapists are concerned about it, but frankly they should say that they require draping on all their advertising and leave it at that. The rest of us can get on with sourcing the therapist we want, draped or undraped

The best (female) Gumtree therapist I know recently asked me if I wanted a fully reciprocated "naturist" massage. I accepted, and I have to say it was phenomenal. There was certainly no impropriety whatever, but the synergy of energy has left me unconvinced I could easily go back to conventional massage.

So- this forum is fascinating, but I would recommend that people start looking at the internet bazaar that is out there!

 

[Radha]

Says it all.



A naturist massage is where the giver and receiver are both naked. I don't understand the 'fully reciprocated' bit.

 

[Shelley Feng]

I should clarify that the phrase "fully reciprocated" is superfluous. It simply means both giver and recipient were unclothed. She did all the massage....

 

[Pompal 09.]

I find it amusing that here's 3 pages discussing the matter of clothing versus lack of clothing! You'd think we were born in a woolly romper-suit! hehe

I once has a female client who literally whipped her clothes and undies off and threw them on the floor then hopped on the couch before I'd even had a chance to speak...I wasn't prepared for that and was rather shocked lol, I didn't react but I think my cheeks may have gone a little pinker!

I wish I had her confidence!

 

[Maikeru]

I would like to address a few things from the initial post:

D) How to deal with arousal (male and female)

E) Attitudes to naturist massage in other countries (any experiences)

F) How to recognise a naturist booking from a one where the client has other motives

I am Dutch, been living in the UK now for 4 years, and have started practicing massage only this year. I am a holistic massage therapist who qualified at an MTI school. They are not anal about covering people up all the time, we learned to leave it up to the client how far they are comfortable undressing. And it is easiest of course if a client is naked. However "we" do use a sheet to keep the private areas covered.

Coming from a country that is perhaps a bit more open when it comes to these things, I think I can say that I'm a naturist in spirit if that makes sense. I used to go to naturist campsites for my summer holidays, visited naturist beaches, and in most spa's and sauna's in Holland, being naked is mandatory. I like being naked, but am not obsessed with it. Being naked in the right context, such as around the house, on holiday, or in a spa, is nice. But I'm not trying to be naked as much as possible at all.

I do think that some people are too focussed on the naked aspect, and not on being naturist, which is much more than just being naked and being around other naked people. And that in my opinion is also the difference between naturist and nudist beaches and resorts.

So in Holland I think normally massage is always naturist massage (with just the client being naked), but draping will be used. And people can keep their pants on if they prefer.

In fact, I had never even heard of naturist massage before, I think in the Netherlands that distinction is not there because there is no need. Whereas here that's different: the default is that people keep their underwear on.

Unfortunately at the same time massage is still very much associated with sex in this country. Again in Holland there is no need for that, because prostitution is legal and people can get sexual services elsewhere. Massage is massage and has nothing to do with sex. The same with naturism in general: many people in the UK associate that with a bunch of pervs. And unfortunately there are people out there that adopt that lifestyle because they get a kick from it in an exhibitionist way. It's about being naughty perhaps to some people.

The same as it being hard sometimes to distinguish between a naturist and a nudist resort (until you get there), I find it hard to distinguish between clients enquiring about naked massage who simply feel more comfortable being naked, and clients who get a kick from being naked and at the very least are after something to feed there sexual fantasies when they go home afterwards and "relieve themselves".

I have started reading a bit about naturist massage, as I've been geting these enquiries. So a question to the naturist therapists: you must get a lot of enquiries from clients who are after something else? Because I "officially" don't even offer naturist massage, and get more calls about that than about back aches. How do you know whether a client's intention is genuine?

And how do you deal with it if they end up on your massage table with a giant erection? I know an erection should not necessarily be a problem, it's a reflex of the body, but when it happens, I do worry about what is going through the clients' head, especially if it's their first treatment. How do other therapists deal with it, when it happens? Especially if clients are not just naked under a sheet or small towel, but if everything is on show?

I am interested in naturist massage, because I've been getting quite a few enquiries. With my background I am comfortable with my own body and nakedness (in the right context), and am comfortable around naked people (in the right context). I never realised there is such a need for it in society here, and I do not want to turn people away who are genuine, just because I think they may be after something else. At the same time I want to remain comfortable with the sessions and the clients I treat. There needs to be a clear border. But how do you define the border if you don't use draping?

This morning someone enquired about naturist massage. He has pains and aches from driving a lot, and has problems with his hips and legs, but also his groin and even the prostate area, affecting his libido. Naturism is a way of destressing for him, which may help already he says. But then of course he wants the problem areas massaged, including the prostate area.

I do think he is genuine, he left his name and number, and didn't seem to find it a problem to book through the reception desk of the clinic I work. We had a long chat, he is not after anything sexual, he's obviously been struggling to find any therapist willing to help him, and I do want to help him, but am not sure about massaging his prostate. Can you even get to it from the outside...?

So naturist therapists: where do you draw the line?

 

[LovingMyHusband]

Hi Pinky

really enjoyed reading your thoughts! I am about to start studying and have some of the same questions, I think I would be comfortable with the naked aspect but like you, very unsure as to how to judge people's intentions... my boyfriend has reservations about me learning massage anyway, in his slightly paranoid mind ALL men are after whatever thrills they can get!


"Unfortunately at the same time massage is still very much associated with sex in this country. Again in Holland there is no need for that, because prostitution is legal and people can get sexual services elsewhere. Massage is massage and has nothing to do with sex." (sorry, my quote button did not seem to work).

I love the way Holland deals with some of it's "social problems" like prostitution. I think legalisation has so many benefits compared to sweeping the problem under the rug, not just for therapists who want to advertise without being misconstrued.

"And how do you deal with it if they end up on your massage table with a giant erection?"

This made me giggle! Reminds me of my mum telling me about when she was training as a nurse, she had to give her first bath to an old man, he was sat in the tub happy as Larry with a big erection... my mum, 19 year old Catholic from a very prudish family, had to run out of the room she was so embarassed! She says she doesn't bat an eyelid these days when it happens as it's only natural, but still, I would be worried about some men who actually seek out sexual gratification from massage.

"I do think he is genuine, he left his name and number, and didn't seem to find it a problem to book through the reception desk of the clinic I work. We had a long chat, he is not after anything sexual, he's obviously been struggling to find any therapist willing to help him, and I do want to help him, but am not sure about massaging his prostate. Can you even get to it from the outside...?"

Hmmm, pretty sure you can't get to this from the outside! I'm pretty sure it's a few inches up the rectum, if you are going to massage this, I'd suggest wearing some latex gloves! (on a more serious side, I don't think massage therapists would be qualified/insured to do anything that involves reaching inside the body - my waxing lady does not even touch ingrown hairs - if you decide he is genuine, I would do the massage but tell him to go and see a doctor about this particular problem if he wants it seen to!)

 

[:-) smile]

I have been reading this with some interest. My only knowledge of massage is as a recipient over a 20 year period. My background is a Registered Nurse / Paramedic with a 20 year history of serious back problems including 4 surgeries. I have tried most alternative therapies with differing degrees of success.
We are told that in Victorian times Doctors may not be allowed to examine their female patients "to preserve their modesty" a state of affairs that most of us would find laughable these days. In my own experience as a Nurse I would need to look at / touch the affected part of the person I was treating and never found this to be a problem or strange in any way. With massage however it seems that standards are different. Most of my pain is in the upper leg, back of the thighs / buttocks. This is because this is where my sciatic nerve is found and yet almost all massage therapists I have used seem to think that they can treat the affected area without touching it or looking at it. Apparently my muscles and tendons stop half way up my thigh!
This was really emphasised when on an extended trip to Spain I received massage THERAPY from an East german girl. She found it amusing that I assumed I would keep my underwear on "How can I treat it if I can't see it" her down to earth and natural approach meant that there was no problem and I received the best and most effective massage therapies in 20 years. She treated the full length of my muscles and tendons and if "anything" got in the way she asked me to move it out of the way, and hold it out of the way until she had finished. No embarrassment on either side.
Can I get this sort of treatment in Scotland? I don't know because the moment I suggest I am branded a perv so I don't ask.
Would I mind a male therapist (straight or gay)? Of course not, if there were one within driving distance.
When I read that a so called "Therapist" is not at the stage in her life that she wants to look at wrinkled old mens bodies, then as a wrinkled old 60 year old I would suggest that she is not at a stage in her life when she should call herself a therapist.
So, is massage a therapy or is it just a pleasant way of spending an hour. If you want to be thought of as professional therapists then maybe you need to start thinking and acting like professional therapists.

 

[nicksaysno]

Thanks for your replies so far! Haha I like that story of your mum curious_george! I guess you would get used to it. Yeah internal prostate massage would definitely be a bridge too far for me, and like you say, I would probably not even be insured. Good luck with your study!

Trainer2000: speaking for myself, I have not said that I don't want people to uncover themselves at all.

And I most definitely agree with you that it is ridiculous that therapists on this side of the North Sea seem to be afraid to touch anything high up the legs etc. Being a (mild) sciatica and RSI sufferer myself, I have always been amazed at that.

So after having been told by an experienced NHS specialist(!) in the hospital to put on a huge gown (in his absence of course) in which I could have gone camping with the family, and him then assessing the situation from the other side of the room, before referring me for an expensive and unnecessary MRI scan: that clinical approach by these people has been one of the main reasons I decided to learn holistic massage.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear that you struggle to find the right therapist for you where you live.

When people are genuine, I do not have a problem with nakedness at all. And once mutual trust is established, I'm happy to massage all the way up to the groin if appropriate/necessary.

But what I struggle with, is to separate the wheat from the chaff. It is a fact that there are quite a lot of people out there phoning up having "untherapeutic" ideas about a massage session and therapist.

So therefore I'm a bit suspicious if someone books in just to have their calves massaged, but insist on being completely naked and uncovered anyway, even a thin sheet covering the genitals being unacceptable already, waving the flag of naturism.

And I am just wondering, if I struggle with this and get more dodgy phone calls than I would like whilst simply offering holistic massage, how do naturist massage therapists deal with this? Are you not flooded with people asking or hoping for a bit more?

How do you assess whether someone is genuine or not?

And again, I wonder how to deal with it if a client has an erection throughout the session, especially if it would be a naturist mssage: should I bring it up, or ignore it to avoid drawing more attention to it? If it's just a reflex, then that's fine. But I can't read their minds. So how do you know?

Another female massage therapist I know usually even mentions it to first-time male clients at the start of the session: "if an erection happens involuntarily, don't worry about it, it happens, it's a normal reaction. But just to emphasise that this is non sexual massage so nothing would happen with it". Or something along those lines. Not sure about that one eiher, or do you guys think that would work and be an ok thing to say?

 

[Elle B]

I don't think that I would want a naturist massage, assuming that means that the therapist is naked as well. I cannot see the point in that. I read one post where the therapist stated she would be naked but would charge more. Offering to take your clothes off for money doesn't send out a good signal.
I am also quite happy to be draped as long s it doesn't interfere with the massage.
I fully understand that it must be difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, and I am sure that there are a proportion of men who have ulterior motives so understand the difficulty, but the East german therapist was so matter of fact about it it was completely un-erotic (is there such a word?) I'm sure that the coyness and making such a big thing about modesty just focuses attention on the forbidden area.
In 20 years of being massaged I have never had an involuntary reaction ( or a voluntary one, come to that) and I would be just as embarrassed if it happened as I would be if it happened with a Dr.
Speaking also as a man of a certain age prostate massage also is not an option, at least not externally.
Still looking, and still hopeful

 

[Isabelle]

Prostate massage - it CAN be done externally, but it's more a general pelvic massage, and it is usually done as self massage above the pubic bone, like a very low abdominal massage. The same techniques are used for uterine massage, it seems to be more about loosening up the facia and surrounding muscles than working on the actual organ. Having said all that, I'd bet anyone asking for prostate massage is angling for an internal massage, again it is usually done as self massage, there are even tools available for those with less flexible hands/wrists. Requests for prostate massage, with or without draping, are going way over the boundaries most massage therapist would consider boundaries. I doubt even a very matter of fact East German massage therapist would consider it part of massage therapy.

As for how to tell if someone is after more than a massage, with or without draping, there are quite a few posts on here, two I can find quickly Male Clients- urgent! and Abdominal Massage? NOTE the links in those threads may be broken. Easiest way I've found is not have any appointments for 48hr and get that in VERY early in the phone call - most people wanting something other than a massage want it same day, or maybe next day, if they can't have that they don't start asking all the other questions to find out what you may or may not work on. There are lots of therapists in busy clinic that can deal with a same day appointment on Monday for someone that did too much gardening over the weekend.